Intellectual Conversation

At some point in life, you begin to realize that some lessons have to be learnt the hard way; my particular realization occurred after I entered into a Facebook-held political argument. For those unfamiliar with this concept and now considering trying this nasty new strand of addictive drug: just don’t – you will regret the shit out of that decision.

It all started, back in mid-June, with this photo:

it makes sense if no one here has actually read the constitution

OBAMACARE = KILLING BABIES AND SENIORS WITH SCARY ALLCAPS SINCE 2008

This post showed it’s snarling little face after a string of bullshit articles in the media and rage-filled Facebook posts (mostly toward immigrants), and I could finally take no more; I had to step in.

Sarah: ‎…How the hell is it unconstitutional? Either this person has never read the constitution (likely) or they are strictly being defamatory for no reason (also likely). I am sorry, but agreeing with this makes you appear….. very uninformed, to put it nicely.

I will be the first to admit that while tactfully worded (with ‘tactfully worded’ meaning not screaming like a banshee and banging my forehead on the desk while typing idiotidiotidiot), it may not have come across as the nicest comment.

The original poster responded, just as tactfully (with “tactfully” meaning not spewing hated about black people in power and those-goddamn-fags omg).

Original Poster (from this point forward known as Grossly Uninformed, Yet Still Speaking the Loudest (or just OP): I don’t like him that is why I posted it and I think it has to do with the health care plan being unconstitutional…….

OK, so clearly my point hadn’t been made. Maybe OP had just read it a little too quickly? Oh, wait…

Random Dude That I’ve Never Met Before In My Life: Sarah, If you think ANYTHING that IDIOT does is constitutional then you are in for a big surprise.. he would rather wipe his ass with the Constitution than live by it. How blind can you be??? Get a life….Have you even read the Constitution of the United States of AMERICA????? I doubt it….oh i forgot (likely) you get them [OP]…Dont back down for shit. He is the biggest downfall to our country EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don’t you love it when this happens?  I remember screaming quite loudly at the computer screen, “WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU???” Where was this guy when George Bush was in office? Did he happen to miss the entire Patriot Act debacle? I’m pretty certain that just by holding a press conference, Bush managed to personally defile every article in the Constitution with his own custom-made whale penis dildo. I particularly enjoyed his use of sarcasm toward me at the end of his comment, though; it showed me that his brain was indeed still there, just heavily misfiring.

So, like I said previously, it had been a bad week.

Sarah: Right…. I don’t know who you are, so A) back the fuck off with your hostile attitude, but B) please take a moment first to explain in DETAIL EXACTLY how his healthcare plan is unconstitutional. At least have the courtesy to bring facts along with your abrasiveness.

Honestly, I felt that I was still being nice. Blinded by righteousness, perhaps?

OP: Well Sarah I agree with my old friend and I thought you did not like his health plan either??? and [old friend] I never Back down from what I believe or feel if people don’t like it oh well……

I’m sure OP was actually holding back greatly at this point, as I know this person to be a giant fucking asshole with all four wheels in the bitch lane at all times. (OP often openly revels in this fact, so rest assured that I am doing them no disservice here.) The conversation continues still (mostly) in an innocuous manner with the next two comments.

OP’s Spouse, who is often the poor simpleton caught in the crossfire: ANY FOR ME WILL DO.I TAKE DENTAL FIRST.FOR 6 MONTHS.I SAY VOTE FOR THE OLD HOUND.AT LEAST IT WILL BE CHEAP OR IS IT FREE?GOOD TUESDAY FRIENDS.

Sarah: The only thing that disappoints me about his healthcare plan is the fact that he decided to cater to a bunch of whiny idiots intent on destroying the country and water it down to uselessness.

I finally crossed the line with my last comment. Instead of taking my use of ‘whiny idiots’ to mean Republicans in power, I believe OP took it quite personally because the gloves finally start to come off.

OP: Sarah he is trying to win votes now is the only reason gas has gone down if he wins again you watch it will go back up and this country will be in a downward Spiral and [spouse] if you vote for him all I have to say is DIVORCE cause honey nothing is for free and your a big idiot if you think that dumb-ass will help this country have you learned NOTHING IN THE PAST 4 YEARS [SPOUSE] GET HIM OUT OF OFFICE AND YOU MIGHT FIND A JOB!!!!!!!! Oh but fist you would have to apply for one not just talk about it……. HE IS THE WORST PRESIDENT SINCE JIMMY CARTER but at least I can say I was not STUPID ENOUGH TO HELP PUT HIM IN OFFICE!!!!!

After a fashion, you’ll begin to notice that OP loves the pointed insult. Yes, I (grumpily) climbed the Mt. Everest-sized hill at my local park in order to vote (proudly) for our president. Sigh.

Sarah: Fact: I currently have healthcare because of Obama. Another fact: Republican nominee Romney is incapable of figuring out which way he leans. Voting for him could just as easily be your worst nightmare instead of mine.

It was still early enough that I wasn’t yet putting forth much effort into my responses. I naively assumed it would blow over pretty quickly.

OP: You have healthcare??? but [spouse] has nothing and [his] teeth are going to fall out soon if we can’t do something so I see Obama only cares about the young and if your old or getting close to retirement age you get nothing a fact I have heard about him………well when I was your age I had a job and paid my own health insurance I feel today’s young people are no better than me to do this but back then we had jobs and things were good and FYI gas was 99 cents a gallon and I know all of this is not his fault but he has done nothing he promised since he got in office but Fuck things Up worse than it was!!!!!! if he gets another turn in office this country will fall apart for sure!!!!!

Sarah: What exactly did he promise? Maybe I can help sort this out. The healthcare thing we can blame “bi-partisanship” for…. we would be able to have a system like Canada has if not for the opposition from Republicans (and the Democrats who refuse to ignore them.) I have healthcare because Obama was able to pass an extension on the age of kids on parent’s insurance… because of privatized healthcare, Americans are forced to buy their own healthcare outright or get it from their employers, which explains why you guys don’t have any. If “obamacare” (a name that I completely fucking detest because it is annoying) had been supported originally from the very beginning, we may have had gov’t provided healthcare for everyone.

Look at me, ever so helpful. Truly, I really just want to guide people in the right direction. I would have gladly spent hours with OP attempting to help them obtain all the necessary facts. Oh, how naive and full of youthful hubris I was.

OP: from what I hear his is not like Canada and it would be bad for us……you should ask a doctor what they think and they will tell you how bad it will be a lot have said they would stop practicing…..now I don’t know why that is for sure as long as they get paid but I think it had something to do with they could treat you for a flue or cold but if you had something major that the obamacare would not care and you would be fucked…..but I could have misunderstood but I still don’t want to government in my healthcare business they are in my business enough!!! so your healthcare is not free yous still on your dad’s? but he did make a comment about the elderly not sure his words but in short its once you get a certain age say over 70 your on borrowed time anyway so it don’t matter if you die no use trying to keep you alive that I don’t like!!!!!

There is a lot of misinformation rambling around in this comment; I actually understand where it was coming from and could have easily set it straight. At some point, OP heard that Obama was attempting to discuss universal healthcare, which would, for all intents and purposes, have provided the “free” healthcare that she assumed I already had. Obamacare in it’s original form was not passed, universal healthcare was squashed by the Republicans (as well as the Democrats who are willing to lay down and die in the name of “bi-partisanship”), and the age to which children could remain covered under parent’s insurance was mandated to rise to 26. The death panel shit, though… hoo boy. That is all fucking Sarah Palin. It’s fitting that the most destructive, asinine remark made regarding the healthcare debate came straight from that horse’s mouth. Some people really will believe anything.

Sarah: That is all bullshit that you are hearing from the people opposed to gov’t covered healthcare. I also read a few blogs of people that are doctors, pharmacists, etc and they HATE privatized insurance and would give anything to have gov’t healthcare, same as us. Private insurance companies will do anything they can to not have to pay for a medical procedure…. take for instance the insurance that (the company i quit working for) offered: they would not pay for gyno visit of any sort. That is bullshit, as it falls under preventative healthcare, but does it matter? No. That is what you will always get from private insurance, they can do that because there is no other option for people. I have nothing wrong with a policy that allows private insurance for people who insist on paying themselves, but i believe that free healthcare should exist for the rest of us who are suffering.

While OP was (for a little while, at least) struck silent, in stepped Doctor Astonishingly Repooblican to fill the void.

Dr. A. Repooblican: Free healthcare is never free. It’s going to cost tax payers much more under his plan. It is going to raise the national debt. You will end up getting less quality care for everyone. Look at the VA system. That is government healthcare at its best. They waste money and it takes forever to get proper care. As people get older they are going to have to ration health care because we can not afford it. Healthcare needs to be reformed but not this way. Obama’s policies have caused health care premiums to go up. We are going to pay more for less quality healthcare. Canada’s health care is no panacea. They dictate when doctors can order certain tests. It takes forever to get an MRI there because when you make things free, you have to ration. Do you want the government to dictate the type of care you get from your Doctor or do you want someone who actually spent their life learning about medicine making those decisions. The unconstitutional aspect of the healthcare bill is that they force people to buy a product simply because they are alive. Don’t get me wrong, I think everyone should get health insurance. But they should have some skin in the game. When things are free and one has no sense of personal responsibility they use medical resources more and abuse the system. They try to enforce the individual mandate through the commerce clause but it is an overreach of government and will likely get shot down by the supreme court. I agree, insurance companies are a big problem and the system needs to be fixed, but his solution will destroy American healthcare as we know it.

I am terrified of what is going to happen to healthcare if his full bill is enacted. While extending insurance for people on their parents insurance is great the bill as a whole is a disaster. Not trying to step on any toes, but had to chime in. Obama has made so many dishonest statements in his presidency it is ridiculous. He tries to speak to the uneducated and whip up support with lies and sensationalism. Look up what he said about what a surgeon gets paid for amputating a leg. I think it was upwards to 50,000 dollars which is ridiculous and said we get paid immediately. The truth is whether it is private insurance or government medicare it takes months to get reimbursed and the surgeon maybe gets 800 to 1,000 dollars or so. And that includes the surgery, hospital care by the physician, as well as 90 days of post op care/clinic visits. Sensationalism at its best. And people that don’t know better believe him.

One more thing. Obama’s system is going to funnel all of these people into medicaid. Most doctors are either limiting their medicaid or not accepting medicaid anymore because it pays so little that you can actually lose money.

This comment was exceptionally well-worded, which makes it all the more disappointing to have to pull apart. I’m going to go ahead and admit that Obama’s erroneous statement about the amount that surgeons get paid (and why) was a ridiculously stupid, bordering on dangerous, comment. I’m sure it was indeed said to rile up the uninformed, and I do not support it. That being said, I would like to point to the amount of $800-$1000 that is quoted in the comment: is this supposed to inspire me to anger at how small those numbers are? I really hope that isn’t the case, because then I would have to ask, just how greedy are you? I personally make $800 after 3 months of work, the number quoted above is for ONE DAY of work. If you really want to get down to it, the disparity between these incomes is entirely unfair. Not to say that doctors do not work hard, nor that they do not deserve to make a good living for themselves. But come on; they’re living on a football player’s 10 million dollar income compared to the lower class. I work hard too, and I am paid quite unfairly compared to the amount of work that I actually do. There is absolutely nothing that you should be complaining about there, aside from Obama’s statement. As for the success of universal healthcare, I direct your attention to two minutes worth of Google-searching here and here. I am sure more evidence could be found (along with counter-arguments, of course) were one to begin their own search. I will finish my argument by stating that the mandate forcing individuals to buy insurance was the result of an unsavory compromise in the healthcare bill that could have been avoided with a universal healthcare option. Also, my boyfriend would have my head if I didn’t ask his favorite question: Are you bothered by the fact that you are forced to buy car insurance? Back to the debate.

OP: THANK YOU AMEN FINALLY SOMEONE WITH A BRAIN AND WHO KNOW WHATS GOING ON!!!! CAUSE I WAS NOT SURE BUT YET I KNOW I AM NEVER WRONG MUAHHAHAHAHA

Yay, self-righteous arrogance in the face of absolutely no research! It’s like if Darwin had never bothered to actually study the birds and instead proclaimed from under his quilt while speaking into his flashlight/microphone that birds are locationally different because the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the moon and the Queen said so, so there. In allcaps, of course.

Intermission time.  By internet law, I am now required to advise you to strap on your headdesk helmet and layer on the ponchos, because the shit is about to start flying in here.

The comments on the above thread died after OP’s shouted vindication, but quickly began again on another thread. Perhaps OP was spurred on by the previous argument and no longer possessed any sort of PC-restraint. My own restraint really wanted to turn tail by this time as well. Behold.

OP: OK people can get mad if the want but this is my facebook and I say to stop the illegals from coming here put about a million volts in that dam fence at the boarder and problem solved!!!! you know kind of like the bug zappers everyone use to have in there back yards years ago got rid of alot of bugs…..just saying

Just. Wow. A couple of people chimed in support for OP’s view, including Mr. Random Dude that I’ve Never Met Before in My Life.

OP: I knew I had a few smart people out there!!!! Thanks : ) and in the long run it would be a lot cheaper than all the free food, housing, education and medical we are just giving Them!!!!!

Yeah. Hey, did you know that groceries store hand out free food to anyone of Mexican heritage? True fact, man. Now I’m just wondering when my boyfriend can claim his free house…

Quickly posting from my phone, possibly while on the toilet –

Sarah: We all receive gov’t help. Little hypocritical…

OP: Yes Sarah and I pay dam taxes here not getting paid under the table and sending to another country while I live here for free and you can’t help to go to college but the one illegal bitch got it paid for and was allowed to get her diploma all on my dam tax dollars so don’t whine anymore about not being able to afford college if you want to let others get what should be yours for free!!! SO NO I am not being hypocritical at all I feel I have a right to say this cause that funding is for Americans born here not for illegal looking for a hand out and my father and yours and me and my [spouse] have all paid into this for years not to give it to a bunch of people who did not work and put money into it!!!!! so don’t take help from the government if you don’t want it I for one have never applied for it Myself I left that iin hands of the person who put us where we are my name is not on it!!!!! well I am sure we had to put my name but my point is I didn’t do it I have more Pride than some People!!!!!!!

Ah, the pointed insults are back. Can we at least try to veil them? Then it could be like  Where’s Waldo, but with annoying eye-pokes. I am not sure it would be a good idea for me to parse through all of the wrong that is that comment… honestly, if you can’t see it on your own, there’s really no help for you. Suffice it to say, NO ONE, not even illegal immigrants, live here completely and totally free. That is one of the more ignorant claims that could be said.

What’s hilarious to me is that generally, people who complain about what their tax dollars pay for A) have no conception as to how taxes actually work and, B) are not actually as aware of what tax dollars pay for as they would like to believe. On top of that, there is a level of human decency that I personally like to preserve; I believe everyone deserves a chance to go to college, and just because I don’t currently fall into the group that qualifies for scholarships and/or loans, that does not mean that I should blame others for my personal failures.

In conclusion, whether or not OP actually, personally applied for government help, simply the fact that OP reaps the benefits from it without complaint nullifies their argument about refusing government help and maintaining their warped sense of ‘pride’. Sorry about that, Chief.

Sarah:  In that vein of argument though, let’s say someone were to visit another country and happen to get into trouble. Because they are not citizens and do not pay that country’s taxes, the police there should not be of service. We were all immigrants once. Citizenship should be something that is strongly encouraged, but I have never seen why it should be demanded from any country. I think our policies should be reformed.

Also…if you benefit from the gov’t help (or go to hospital in lieu of traditional healthcare) then it’s pretty much the same as signing up?

That was a simplistic form of a argument I have held about immigration policies for awhile. I don’t believe that anyone should be forced to become a citizen of a particular country in order to obtain the benefits available there. If you work in the USA, if you are paying sales tax in the USA, if you are a useful part of our society and you fucking own/rent a house in the USA, you should be able to be included in the benefits of the USA. There should be a different method of registration (something other than a Social Security number) with which to keep track of the people in the USA who are not citizens, therefore allowing them to pay income taxes like everyone else, as well as seek government help if they need it. People are people, it doesn’t matter where you live or where you were originally from; we are all essentially one community. Human decency, remember that concept? I also think that the citizenship process needs to become much easier (that includes the ridiculous citizenship test), and people who immigrate should not be pressured to achieve it, but gain assistance towards the process if desired. I’m sure there is more that I am forgetting, but for now, I’ve fleshed it out sufficiently. Moving on.

OP: Whatever Sarah I get bills where I went to the ER but can’t Pay them I may as well as all those illegals who get to go for free and I payed years ago working so dam straight I m owed something I am not still on my daddys health care plan and I am a fucking American I don’t get shit…..take your ass to any other country and see if you get anything for free you won’t cause they are not as stupid as the USA……and I am for one am tired of free loaders in the country!!!!!!

And finally, it begins. The veritable poo-slinging from Miss Devil in a Trucker’s Cap. Just wait for this shit, because it gets so good. Before we start, you should know that I barely know this woman; we’re not Facebook friends, and I’ve never had an actual conversation with this woman in my life. As far as I know, she doesn’t know anything about me.

Miss Devil in a Trucker’s Cap (De-ville): well don”t know who your referring to bout government help .. But I assure you little lady I have never drawn anything from our lovely government.. Now I pay to keep those of you who are lazy and dont wanna work.up… and as far as our lovely ILLEGALS.. WELL THATS A DIFFRENT STORY!!!!!!! THe health care system that obama your high preist is wanting is NOT FREE!!!!! you will be force to purchase it and wen you don”t you will be fined. and since you like him so much wen your mama get old and needs help and she has to go before a death panel to get the ok to receive drs care and they send her home to DIE then WHAT!!!!!!! SEE that your OBAMA!!!!!!!!!! not everyone is a lazy bum!!! there are people out there who truly need help but those who pop out babies and live on welfare because they are sorry and dont want to help themselves i have a problem with. I dont mind helping those who need it but I dont owe you or anyone else anything.. I have work for what I got and by the grace of GOD i’m stilll working… AND THESES ARE THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO IS GONNA RUN OUR COUNTRY SOMEDAY>…. WOW!!!!!!!!!

Another fan of the pointed insult, but this time, not successfully directed at her person of ire (I have a job and no children or welfare assistance. I am also not afraid of the scary Death Panels.) This is just another instance of an anti-government nutter complaining about not wanting government assistance… despite most likely intending to claim their rightful share of Social Security in their old age. Let’s not forget all of the other things our tax dollars pay for: roads, schools, stop lights, public transportation, police force, firemen…. I assume this woman has never needed any of these government-provided benefits, either?

After I stated that there is no such thing as a death panel, she responded –

De-Ville: really!!!!! Boy your outta touch!!! maybe you need to really pay attention !!!! do you realize we have a constitution or do you know what that is!!!!! there is death panel in the OBAMA care!!!!! now if you wanna talk polictics you better know what going on first.. do you even have a job!!!!! wen you work and pay bills like i do then you may say your peace… but you need to really pay attention to whats really going on and if you wanna this government to control all aspects of your life then get you need to raise your hand to the almight HITLER!!!!!! why dont you go live somewhere where they have all that stuff… t like europe they are going bank rupt or do you pay attention to what really going on!!!!!!

Wow, re-reading that brought back the entitled fury I felt as a teenager listening to Marilyn Manson. I should really be careful. I’m not going to comment on the idiocy in that rant, but I will comment of the offensiveness. What does it bring to a discussion after you’ve thoroughly, purposely, ineffectively insulted the party with whom you disagree? Stupid. It brings the stupid, hard core. Because no matter how much the educated party calmly and effectively refutes everything you’ve said, you’ll just get more irate and blustery. You’re entitled, you’re self-righteous, and best of all, you feel that because one other loser on the internet has agreed with you, you are vindicated in a holy manner.

OP: Thank You [De-Ville] I had heard of some of that stuff and Amen to what you said glad someone who has never had helped chimed in with a point of view!!!!!! wish other people would and what really pisses me off is some of those dam illegal get up to 10 thousand in food stamps and help I don’t get that kind of shit!!!!!

Wait, I thought your entire issue was based on not wanting government help? It seems more like boiling anger based on not ‘receiving your fair share’.

I stopped playing safe at this point.

Sarah:  I must have missed the point where this went from a debate to being a bitch for no reason. 1) Of course I have a fucking job. 2) Of course I have heard of the Republican myth of death panels. 3) You didn’t actually bring evidence as to the existence on these so called death panels, so for now, it is you that is out of touch. 4) What exactly was your point with bringing up the Constitution? Unless you were justifying your right to freely and unkindly bitch at me, I don’t see your point.

Hey, it’s Random Dude again!

Random Dude that I’ve Never Met Before in My Life: I dont get or want a DAMN thing from the Government!!!!!! [OP], im with ya sista:) I dont give a rats ass what all these Liberals opinions are. If they dont like the way this country has been run for years and years ( with the exception of the last 4 with this so called bird we have in office now) then move to some island in the middle of nowhere and make each other miserable and leave us the hell alone…..

I admire the use of ethnic slang. I would have assumed you’d cut your own tongue out before you became like one of them low-class ghetto-dwellers. You confused me with the ‘so-called bird’ bit – is that supposed to be insulting?

OP: Sarah the Health Plan is what unconstitutional they are forceing you to take it wheather you can afford it or not…..from what I hear not sure and if you can’t pay for it you are fined for not having it?? angain what I got from it….. and I don’t think [De-Ville]was being a bitch to you I think she was defending me is all and she knows more about it than I do but I do not believe in my heart it is a good idea and maybe it is just the people that are my age and older who think that?

So…. De-Ville has education backing her opinion? Where do you think I got my information, off the back of the Cocoa Pebbles box? That damn Fred Flintstone and his subliminal socialistic messages. Answers inside the box, indeed.

Lone Voice of Reason butts in for all of ten seconds and then hides behind the nearest tree: not getting into this very heated discussion, but just wanted to note that a correction should be made: There are MANY countries where healthcare is considered a human right and its totally free,i.e. Canada,Europe/Eurasia…and in these places, you are born into this world w/ healthcare & leave the world with it…(makes you wonder why europeans have a longer life span even tho they smoke & drink more than we do?)….

At this point, a small discussion breaks out about whether or not De-Ville was insulting me and whether there was any reason that she should have been ‘defending’ OP so heartily.

OP: well Sarah you were wrong on some stuff I do believe???? and I think she was pointing that out to cause you put everything as if everyone was wrong but you???? I mean she is not aloud to tell you what she thinks but your aloud to put your point of view come on……and you did kind of attack me by calling me a hypocrite but when she called you on what she felt you were wrong on and pointed it out to you well you want to get mad [Doctor Astonishingly Repooblican] even pointed stuff out to you the other day and he is a doctor so I think he knows whats coming and I was even talking about healthcare on here I was talking about People not from this country getting a free ride on everything while those of us who have been here for years and have paid all the taxed don’t get Shit!!!! You turned in to healthcare debate I was talking about all the free loaders from all over the world getting help off us while we all suffer!!!!

Which…. sure sounded like a healthcare debate (at least partially) to me. I’m not sure where OP got the idea that I told anyone that they couldn’t voice their opinion. I’m also unsure at what point she began to become blind to insults (likely around the time they were aimed at someone she disagrees with.)

Sarah:  Um. Right. Whatever. I did NOT attack you, just talked to you as I normally would speak. Maybe you should read what she wrote to me again if you are confused on the difference. The reason that a productive argument can never be had with a Republican is because you guys always feel that you’re attacked and therefore aim for the jugular immediately. Its very frustrating.

In addition, you cannot say I am wrong outright just because your friends agree with your point of view. We are in [a southern state], predominately Republican, it is to be expected. I only accept a legitimate source that proves me wrong, you know that. Hell, I will accept a Wikipedia article, but you have to show it to me first. And that applies to anything [Doctor Astonishingly Repooblican] says as well. Love him, but just because he is a doctor doesn’t make him infallible, and I’m sure he would agree with that.

I did not intend to bring up the healthcare debate again… it got dragged in by me mentioning benefits. I am still confused by the adamancy with which most of you say that you don’t/won’t accept gov’t help… i assume social security (if still available) will be something you will accept in your old age?

[De-Ville] did manage to inadvertently make one good point, which is something I hate about ALL Americans: entitledness. You keep saying that you paid taxes and you deserve something. Why? Your money is paid back to you at the end of the year. Are you expecting interest?

My opinion about illegal immigrants is that the issue could easily be solved if we reformed our policy. We need a lot of change in America in order to stay the greatest country in the free world.

OP: Number 1… I am not a Republic I vote for who I like and if you can’t handle a debate don’t start one she spoke her mind same as you…But she did not agree with you and you don’t agree with me or her…..and as far as age I hope you change as you get older and learn more as we have that the government no matter who we vote for will Screw us all one way or another…..and yes on the illegals we do need reform and the guy you voted for Promised it to them….they were talking about that on TV just the other day how they were upset that he had not kept his promise to them..but me and you can talk to each other the way we did cause we get each other!!!! to others it may not look that way…but in no way did I see her call you anything bad to just get your fax straight and told you what she has read and heard we are all going by what we read and hear??? and I let her know in no way was you the type girl you or [your sister] to be a Dam Baby Ma Ma person to try to get a Man that you both are better than all that!!! and that Yes you do work and have worked…what I am trying to say is just don’t get so offend if someone does not agree with you…..find you facts and tell them where they can find what you know to help educate if what you say is true and ask them to show you or tell you how they came to there facts and then we can all learn whats going on…..and I have in no way said you were totally wrong in what you said I just want more facts and I am going by facts my own doctors have told me….and as far as [Doctor A. Repooblican] I said ask him cause of him being a doctor he would know more about it than me you or [De-Ville] in no way did I say he was the God of know it all !!!!!!! and we are not talking about the taxes we pay and get back at the end of the year we are talking about the Medicaid we have paid into for years that is going to the illegals it is there for us when we get old but soon it will not be….by the time you retire you will be on your own with nothing if they keep this UP is all we are saying and I will read again what she said but I did not think she called you anything bad I think she was asking????

In case you’re confused, as OP seems to be, MedicAID is for people, generally below the poverty line, who cannot afford health care; MediCARE is for use when you become a senior citizen. So, if indeed most of Medicaid is going to illegal immigrants, it shouldn’t harm you at all, especially if you’re so heavily resistant to receiving government assistance.

I posted this.

De-Ville: well Whatever Sarah!!! if you don”t wantt to hear my opinion then don”t say anything!!! you claim that we all have had gov assisant and I haven’t so you need to be prepared to hear what people say wen you accuse people of getting gov help!!!! it kills me that you wanna stand on your soap box wen your reciving food stamps to rite but the thing bout all this is some people lie about certain things Rite sarah!! so. as far as health care I pay for my health care and for other peolpes to.. I pay for babies that people don”t take care of, I pay school taxes and have no kids, unemployement , now wen I have to start paying for you and all those of you who dont have health care I HAVE A PROBLEM WIT THAT!!!!! I was not attacking you!!!! you just got offended cause we all have a rite to our opinion wheather you like it or not. Now as far as your big education goes it doesn’t seem like its doing you any good other than your long stories.. and if your trying to impress someone it”s not working!!! you can have all the book smarts but it still won”t get you into the gates of heaven. And you can read that in the bible. that should tell you something!!! Now we all have something to say bout all of this but you really need to get your fax straight before you stick your foot in your mouth. Canada and Europe and all those other countries if that what you like the border is wide open and you can go live there no one is stopping you!!!! and that little comment wasnt for you sarah!!!! now can”t we all just get along!!!!!!

Well, OP, still don’t think I’m being attacked? De-Ville thinks she is ‘outing’ me for having food stamps (something that I am not ashamed of and would freely tell anyone, as I would not be able to eat at all were it not for that help, and I am proud of a government that would help me when I am down.) Then she outright calls me a liar… about something which is never made clear. Then she tells me that my ‘education’ (of which I have none, other than high school) will not grant me salvation. I guess she ran out of insults. When in doubt, use Jeebus for your own selfish purposes.

I tried one last time, and vowed to myself that I would maintain radio silence afterwards.

Sarah: Alright. Let’s get this straight, once and for all. I am completely open to hearing anyone’s opinion. I think that is important, so I’m going to repeat it, with a little emphasis: I am COMPLETELY OPEN to hearing ANYONE’S opinion, about anything. Maybe since I’ve written it twice now, it won’t again get overlooked or misconstrued.

It is important that you read what I have written carefully in the future, because not only did you miss the part from my first paragraph quite a few times, but you have also missed the part where I said, quote: “…IF you benefit from the gov’t help (or go to hospital in lieu of traditional healthcare) then it’s pretty much the same as signing up?” also, ” i assume social security (if still available) will be something you will accept in your old age?” First quote, if not applicable to you, should be ignored or labeled ‘N/A’. The second quote I am assuming is also not applicable to you, as you haven’t yet responded on that one. Only the second quote can be assumed to be a thinly-veiled accusation. It is confusing to me why anyone would get so defensive about accepting government help, whether they do so or not. At what point did help become something at which to turn one’s nose up? I accept help all the time. My boyfriend drives me to work. My co-worker helps me rearrange an entire wall of product. My boyfriend’s mother picks up an item from the grocery for me. My sister buys me a kitchen timer. I’m pretty sure if I were indignant about receiving help from them, they would find me ungrateful and turn away from me. It just seems wrong to me.

On that note: Yes, I receive food stamps. I am proud and grateful for them because without them, I would not be able to afford to eat. Aside from this not really being proper ammunition to sling at me, I believe that it gives me justification to write about these things, because I know first hand. You can look normal and well-off to the outside world, but inside the house things are entirely different. I would wager there are people that you don’t even realize are struggling. If you’re too proud to accept a helping hand, then the suffering continues. I don’t believe in allowing human suffering to continue needlessly. But I digress.

I would love to become privy to the meaning behind your insinuation, “the thing bout all this is some people lie about certain things Rite sarah!!” My assumption is that you think I have somehow lied in regards to my accepting government help. But you know what happens when one assumes… so, an explanation on this would be greatly appreciated.

Unless I have been reading my paycheck incorrectly, aside from Soc/Medicaid, taxes are generally taken as ‘Federal’ and ‘State’. There are no specific allocations in regard to where the money is going, e.g. schools, healthcare, abandoned babies. This leads me to believe that the money they have taken from any one paycheck could be used for any of the above, or even highways, federal buildings, police wages, etc. We can’t know for sure where our taxes are going, so I don’t see the point in making a specific complaint. Much ado about nothing, honestly. Unless you’re making a pretty penny every paycheck, you likely don’t miss much each pay cycle… and unless you are paying far less taxes than you owe, you see all of it back at the end of the year in the form of a tax refund. On a side note, this got me thinking about when Obama passed the tax relief thing back in 2009; if your paychecks were really small, barely any taxes were taken from your check. I know for a fact that [OP] and I benefited (however little, as we were paid a piddling amount in the first place) from that when we worked together.

I fear I have come to yet another insinuation that I would like explained, ” Now as far as your big education goes it doesn’t seem like its doing you any good other than your long stories.. and if your trying to impress someone it”s not working!!! you can have all the book smarts but it still won’t get you into the gates of heaven. ” Now again, I don’t want to assume, but you seem to be saying here that you, A) think I have had some sort of higher education, B) said education has not managed to lift me from the depths of my implied stupidity, C) I am a story-teller the likes of Chaucer, D) that I’m out to impress rather than inform/debate, and E) I am going to hell for having an opinion and the ability to utilize correct grammar. Please be sure to correct me if I am wrong on any of those points.

As for having the facts straight, I posted a link to a source that I have used for my information. I am able to supply more, if desired. If you have an issue with the information I have used, please be sure to address your anger their way instead of mine. I would love to see your sources as well. Link, please?

Lastly, you mentioned that the ‘borders are wide open’ for me to move to Canada and Europe. Are you suggesting that I move to a country of which I am not a citizen and partake in their lovely lifestyle? Why does that sound so familiar to me….? (Sorry, I just had to throw that one in, as it made me laugh. I believe laughter is sorely needed right now.) Getting along has it merits, but embarrassing ourselves has been so much fun, hasn’t it?

I took the better part of 30 minutes to get all that out, and as expected, it goes unappreciated.

De-Ville:  Oh well!!!! That’s all I have to say.. hey [OP] wen u find that wall let me know so I can run into it.. hahaha stupidity.. don’t you just love it..

OP: I am sorry NO ONE agreed with Sarah as far as I can tell on here have not got to read some of this yet myself but I never seen where ANY OF US REALLY PROVED OUR POINT!!!!! I hope no one hurt Sarah’s feeling and I do not think that was anyone set out to do that I think they were trying to educate her on what they knew but she would not hear of it or even consider anyone’s point of view other than her own…..

I stayed true to my word and did not respond any further, even though the thread went on a for a little while longer. I finally accepted the fact that I could never truly win a war waged against this type of people. Debates are healthy, but name-calling and ear-plugging while not listening to a word of your opposition’s argument, is not.

And so.

This is why you never ever ever ever ever want to make the mistake of joining a political conversation on Facebook. (At least, not if you want to retain your sanity. Because what if your insurance doesn’t cover it? You wouldn’t want the government to step in, would you?) And ever since this incident, I can proudly say that I have abstained from using the forum. I guess my long stories did me some good after all.

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One response to “Intellectual Conversation

  1. Pingback: Intellectual Conversation: It’s Back… And Bitches Be Crazy! | the simple pleasure of saying true things

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